Monday, June 1, 2009

Life and Death Personal, Moral Responsibility

Good Morning Bloggers! I would just like to say how profoundly sorry I am about the murder of Dr. George Tiller as he attended church services in Kansas yesterday morning. I realize that we have a contentious debate about abortion in the US, but when religious zealots murder in the name of God it makes me realize just how dark and scary our nation can be at times.

Just like President Obama I do not believe in abortion, and I would like to dramatically lower the number of abortions in the country, but I do believe in a woman's right to choose. Unlike the religious right, I do not want to see abortions return to back allies where innocent woman die at the hands of black-market abortion practitioners.

This is not about whether abortion is right or wrong. It never has been. That's just the way the "pro-life" crowd likes to spin it. In the same way sex is inevitable, and impossible to legislate, abortions are inevitable. They always have been, and they always will be. To say otherwise is simply to be in denial. The only way to protect innocent women is to allow for abortion rights, strict privacy, and personal choice when it comes to their own bodies. Dr. Tiller believed in that right, and died for that reason. It's a tragic loss.

If they care so much about LIFE, instead of constantly fighting to make abortion illegal, why don't the "pro-lifers" spend more time focusing on birth control (except for the Pope - he can be the lone voice in the wilderness) and family planning? If not, then why? Could it be their next, great moral battleground wedge issue? If they really care about saving lives - born or unborn - and preventing abortions - legal or illegal, there's no better solution than family planning. It's proven to prevent abortions and save lives!

They should also personally adopt more unwanted babies. That's right, that would save lives too. They should put their money where their mouths are, don't you think? I do! It's obvious to me there are alternatives to this fight, but THE ZEALOTS MUST FREE THEMSELVES OF THEIR OWN SMALL-MINDED, SELF-RIGHTEOUS MORALITY PLAY. It also helps when we ignore the zealots - I think they like the attention.

A woman has a right to be in control of her own body, and to believe otherwise - or to fight for the rights of an unborn fetus over a functioning human being - is nothing but a sociological and/or religious attempt to control something that is - in reality - uncontrollable. You may as well try to control birth control, or premarital sex. Admit it, it's impossible. The real debate is about control, not religion.

Until a man is willing to give the state, or even religion, control over his penis, the whole discussion is about invading a woman's right to privacy. Think about it, why don't we also discuss making "casual intercourse" without birth control illegal? It too would serve to protect any potential unborn fetus? I'm sorry, but it must remain a personal and private decision by the impregnated woman herself.

It's her body, and she's the one who must live with the consequences of her decision.

Dr. Tiller's murder is just one more indication that we must evolve in this country. The zealots have too much influence, and they continue to generate the kind of fanaticism that leads to both murder and assassination. It's also a clear indication that we need more education. Once again, America gets a "D" in debate, and an "F" in maintaining an evolved, moral perspective.

I'm left to wonder who will be next. To be blunt, I worry a lot about President Obama - there are too many right-wing nuts out there right now.

In the same way I believe the over-heated, right-wing rhetoric coming out of FOX "News" and similar media have led to actual murders (there is plenty of evidence supporting that position), I believe the so-called "pro-life" movement needs to consider the serious consequences of their influence.

My personal condolences to the family of Dr. Tiller. Many of us realize he was only trying to save the lives of woman. We can only hope that his death is not in vain. Rest in peace Dr. Tiller.

Monday's Political Rant - Michael

PS - As talked about over on Infidel's blog, murdering an abortion doctor is domestic terrorism (as well as a hate crime). If the GOP is so concerned about terrorism, they should be more willing to look inside their own ranks at the people who are terrorizing and murdering in the name of religion and other extremist causes.

Like the Taliban, there is no doubt in my mind the right-wing is the violent wing within our own political/religious system.

25 comments:

ghostrider6265 said...

As for my thoughts on this murder, I figure the Doc got 67 years of living and that's a lot more than any of his victims had. There is no need for any woman to carry a child for 21 weeks and then decide it is excess baggage. The good doctor was no more than a hit man for these women.

The guy who killed him wasn't in the right either, but what goes around comes around. In that line of work you take your chances and in this situation we have two losers. The winners are some of the babies not yet conceived.

Infidel753 said...

And so we see, once again, how right-wingers serve as apologists and excuse-makers for terrorists.

by Michael Boh said...

All I can say GR is that you seem to understand this issue about as well as any other. As usual, you seem to jump to the conclusion without knowing all the facts. I would suggest that you learn more about the issue, and the life of Dr. Tiller, before you decide to be his judge, jury and executioner. I agree with Infidel about your reaction - to this issue and all the rest.

jonguttman said...

Michael,

The assassination of Dr. Tiller, and that's what it was, is reprehensible. And I think on that just about all of us are in agreement - except, of course, our dear friends "the wing nuts".

But I'm more concerned with a trend that has become all to pervasive among "liberal weenies" like ourselves who have felt the necessity to qualify discussion on the issue of choice with "but I don't believe in abortion".

Seriously, is it some sort of religion? Do we believe in appendectomies, tonsillectomies, amputations? I think trying to empower a medical procedure with a "spiritual" tilt only confuses things.

I think for myself, the better way to coin the issue is in terms of "less is a more desirable goal".

I also have to wonder, as you point out, whether men should even have a place at the table. This is first and foremost a woman's issue.

I'm not trying to bust your chops here, but whatever our own personal beliefs on the subject are, we need to be careful not to confuse the debate.

It really is about choice, specifically a woman's, not about abortion.

Hope I'm not being to cerebral and have a great week.

Jon

ghostrider6265 said...

Boh since you are the all knowing why not give us the fucking facts on the good Doctor. I would like for you to start with the.

1. Number of lives the good doctor saved in performing these late term abortions.

2. The number of children that were aborted by the good doctor who never had the chance to take a breath of air.

Infidel753 I believe your party already has the label of being the apologist for the terrorist and what ever other group that comes along, most recently Obama was out apologizing to all of them, how quick we forget.

ghostrider6265 said...

"I also have to wonder, as you point out, whether men should even have a place at the table. This is first and foremost a woman's issue."

Gotta love the above quote, Tiller made it his issue and issue which he got rich from sucking the brains out of the un-born and flushing them right down the shitter.

ghostrider6265 said...

It was a assembly line business for the good doctor.

by Michael Boh said...

Thanks for the great POV Jon. I do see your point, and agree that perhaps men should keep out of it. Oddly, men represent 70% of the leadership within the anti-abortion, pro-life ranks. They are the true empaths when it comes to women and pregnancy. LOL! The pigs should all be "sci-fi inpregnated" somehow and forced to endure the whole nine months. Let's see how dedicated and moral they are after that little experiment. They consider themselves the honest, decent men (like GR) who care about God and the unborn fetus. What a crock of shite!! They're probably all a bunch of mysognistic, moralistic hypocrites with female control issues. If they could get pregnant, they would be the worst feminists of all.

Infidel753 said...

Jon Guttman: But I'm more concerned with a trend that has become all to pervasive among "liberal weenies" like ourselves who have felt the necessity to qualify discussion on the issue of choice with "but I don't believe in abortion".

This is a good point. I have never made any such qualification when discussing this subject. I don't agree that only women have the right to an opinion -- any person should be able to express an opinion on anything -- but I consider abortion completely morally neutral. It's the pregnant woman's decision, period, and any attempt by an outside party to interfere with her decision is an attack on personal freedom.

ghostrider6265 said...

"They consider themselves the honest, decent men (like GR) who care about God and the unborn fetus. What a crock of shite!! They're probably all a bunch of mysognistic, moralistic hypocrites with female control issues. If they could get pregnant, they would be the worst feminists of all."

To fucking funny nowhere have I ever mentioned God nor said that I was a religious person.

I get a charge out of turning your fucking liberal crank Boh, I say abort all of the little bastards because more than likely they will grow up to pompous assholes like you and a few other that visit your site.

I do believe the Doctor was doing the conservatives a good deed with his abortion clinic, with every abortion that was one less liberal.

ghostrider6265 said...

"Many of us realize he was only trying to save the lives of woman."

Boh give us some numbers on how many women went to this mans clinic seeking an abortion with her life in jeopardy because of the un-born child, you cannot do it because you know it was nothing more than a assembly line for abortion for women who no longer wanted the child, it had nothing to do with her health or her life being in jeopardy.

by Michael Boh said...

You are such a JUDGEMENTAL ASSHOLE GR! Would you please tone down the freakin rudeness or get the hell off this subject!

ghostrider6265 said...

60,000 aborted fetus's Boh, make a case for your readers this man was doing it for the health of the woman as opposed to the health of his pocket book, Tiller and 2 other doctors in the country were doing this procedure. 60,000 x 5,000 = a shit load of money.

ghostrider6265 said...

"You are such a JUDGEMENTAL ASSHOLE GR! Would you please tone down the freakin rudeness or get the hell off this subject!"

LMAO, judgemental asshole? you cannot support what you are saying can you? Boh you are all mouth nothing more nothing less, you print your shit knowing that the majority of the people haven't a fucking clue as to what you are talking about.

ghostrider6265 said...

A little morsel for you to chew on Boh.

Many, if not most, providers stop performing abortions around 20 weeks; Tiller would extend past 24 weeks "in extreme cases of risks to the woman's life," the source said. "These patients were not simply women who waited too long to decide."

looks like this man wasn't interested in any woman's life as you stated above he was more into the money.

by Michael Boh said...

GR, I'm tired of your insults and your lame attempt to paint this poor man as a mass murderer. MOST OF US HERE DON'T AGREE THAT HE WAS KILLING PEOPLE THE WAY YOU DO! No, you're not winning the argument as you seem to think. We simply can't debate you on your terms because we don't agree with your premise (look it up). So, let's agree to disagree and move on to another subject asshole. As usual, you come across offensive and brutish. So, don't bother to waste more time commenting, because I'll simple delete any future crap when I get the time.

Nancy said...

This always has been and always will be between WOMEN, THEIR BODIES, and THEIR OWN moral compass. Why is it conservative men think they have a right to dictate what is a woman's choice. For most women, a decision to abort one's own child is excruciatingly painful. Conservative men giving kudos to a murderer who considers abortion murder is ludicrous, hypocritical and criminal.

GR wrote, "The winners are some of the babies not yet conceived." Who the hell do you think you are? God? Of all the arrogant, ignorant statements made by conservative men, this one is one of the most ridiculous.

When will you concede that the only way to reduce abortions is through education, legislation to expand access to contraception, health information and preventive services to help reduce unintended pregnancies, increase funding for family planning and comprehensive sex education that teaches both abstinence, safe sex methods, the consequences of unintended pregnancies as well as abortion.

Murdering doctors who perform abortions is a fool's way of solving this problem and only fools will applaud a murderer.

by Michael Boh said...

VERY well put Nancy - as always. Watch it GR, I told you I was over your crap. Be polite and brief, or get deleted. I told you we're not accepting your premise in this debate, so any talk of mass murder is a waste of our time. Thanks for the POV Nancy. MB

Nancy said...

You bet, Michael. As always, your posts are right on!

I have zero desire to have any kind of conversation with GR. It's obvious he does not respect the opinion of others. Only his will do. I get the feeling he has no respect for women either. Mr. Control Freak who believes only he and his male cohorts have the right to tell women what to do with their bodies and doctors how to do their jobs.

Have a good day, Michael. :)

ghostrider6265 said...

1.2 million Abortions a year and you want to convince me that a decision to abort one's own child is excruciatingly and painful for a woman bull-shit if that was the case I would say abortions would be down in the hundreds as opposed to the millions.

"Why is it conservative men think they have a right to dictate what is a woman's choice. For most women, a decision to abort one's own child is excruciatingly painful."
The quote above is just another liberal talking point to justify the killing of an innocent childNancy if you took noticed I do believe I said hell let them abort all of the little bastards, one less liberal that people have to contend with.

Nancy said...

GR - It must be excruciatingly painful to be you.

ghostrider6265 said...

Nancy it is no problem being me, I say what is on my mind and do not take the politically correct position in order to be accepted by all of the idiots who do.

Jolly Roger said...

I may get banned for this, but here goes anyway...

Goatfucker, you are a truly disgusting waste of resources some human being could be using. By any chance, are your mom and dad also your brother and sister?

Nancy said...

Touche' GR. We are all entitled to our opinions. Good day, Sir.

by Michael Boh said...

No JR, you just react to the rudeness, and try to be funny about it. Btw, you succeed - your stuff is hilarious. GR doesn't try to be funny. He just tries to be cruel. GR, please drop this subject. Again, we don't agree with your mass murder premise, and therefore, nobody's listening to your side of this debate. You're not going to convince us the man was a murderer, so just move on.